When Patrick posted that a descendant of Freskyn in the Forse line had been tested and his results bore no resemblance to those of any of the members of the project, it was to say the least a puzzle. I had been working on the hypothesis that the growing group shown as 0.3 Moray Firth represents the male descendants of Freskyn and this result, from the Forse line throws that into doubt.
However I knew that another member of the same branch of the family, a fellow Forse descendant from an earlier ancestor had undertaken the Scotlands DNA test which showed that his Haplogroup is P312. This meant we potentially had 2 men, both on paper descendants of the same male ancestor, in this case Donald 8th Laird of Forse, who have totally different Haplogroups. This is not possible so someone somewhere has had some outside “assistance” in producing a male heir.
The big and as yet unanswered question is which of them is the true biological heir of Freskyn and which is actually the descendant of someone completely different.
We now have the initial results for this second Forse family member and he is indeed a match for and therefore member of the Moray Firth group. Once more of his results are announced I will update this blog.
If you are or know a man who is a direct descendant of one of the Duffus lairds or one of the illegitimate sons of James 5th Lord Duffus, please let me know as we are anxious to get at least one man from this group tested.
Well, we have some initial test results from one of our three members with a genealogy that traces back to Freskin de Moravia. This Sutherland member has a haplogroup that is I1, which is quite a surprise. We will have to wait until the other two members tied to Freskin have their results come back before we can possibly make any conclusive comments. This first result is quite interesting though, and very unexpected. I1 is strongly associated with Scandinavia, particularly Finland, Denmark and Sweden. Hmmmm…
Very interesting Sutherland DNA haplogroup results coming in from some of our group members who have taken the Geno 2.0 haplogroup DNA test with National Geographic, partner to FTDNA for haplogroup testing. One of our Sutherland DNA project members tested L38+ as a terminal SNP. It’s part of haplogroup I2 and is known as I2a2b (formerly I2b2). Haplogroup I-L38 is sometimes nicknamed as the “Lichtenstein-haplogroup” because in the Lichtenstein Cave, in the German Hartz mountains, 3000 year old bones were found that were typed as I2a2b. Located here is a more detailed and very informative description of DNA haplogroup L38+ and the history and geographic migration association with this SNP.
I’m still waiting waiting for my results from Geno 2.0. Patrick
Very excited to pass along that we have two new Sutherland DNA Project members who have joined the study, both of whom have documented paper trails to the progenitor of the Sutherland Clan, Freskin de Moravia himself! My thanks to Mark Sutherland-Fisher and fellow admin Robert J. Sutherland for helping facilitate these Sutherland kinsmen to the study. Their DNA will greatly help advance our abilities to make interpretations. Stay tuned for more as these Sutheralnd DNA kit results are posted….. Patrick
Several of our Sutherland DNA Project members (including your humble administrator) have ordered and taken the new National Geographic Geno 2.0 haplgroup/SNP test. As mentioned, Nat Geo has partnered with FTDNA to offer this test, based on a new chip that analyzes an extraordinary amount of SNP testing. The Geno 2.0 chip tests some 13,000 SNPs on the Y Chromosome, by far the largest from all commercial DNA labs. A few of our members have their test results back already, and followed the instructions on this blog explaining how to transfer the results to FTDNA (It’s kind of strange because FTDNA is the testing lab, yet you have to transfer your results to them). Anyway, I’ve been told that when transferred, it doesn’t yet update your previous haplgroup information at FTDNA. Alasdair MacDonald sent a note to FTDNA a couple months ago inquiring about this, and was told they were working on it and that it would soon be ready and working. So, those who have taken the test and transferred results, they should update soon (hopefully) at FTDNA. For those who have only taken the Y-STR testing at FTDNA, please strongly consider this test. It has replaced the old FTDNA deep clade test. For members who have already had SNP/haplogroup testing through FTDNA’s deep clade test, you may also want to consider this test since many thousands more SNPs are tested. Patrick
I thought I would let Sutherland DNA Project members and others know of a new and exciting DNA test that I just ordered (for $199). FTDNA has partnered with the National Geographic Project to offer a new “haplogrop” test, the Geno 2.0. Haplogroups offer insight into your earliest ancestry and migration (into Scotland), stretching back 1,000′s of years. It is our understanding that the Geno 2.0 replaces Continue reading
Those of us who study the Sutherland family in all its guises tend to share a starting point. That starting point is a Flemish man called Freskin of Moravia. Some of us claim direct descent from him. Some of us aspire to be his direct descendants and in some cases have spent many years trying to prove it. Now others are Continue reading
Good info for Sutherland DNA Project members and others from Alex Fleming regarding their project to blend national history, local history, and genealogical and DNA approaches to develop a fairly comprehensive view from St. Andrews of Flemish involvement in Scotland. Research sponsored and conducted through St. Andrews Institute and Scottish Historical Research Society.
For those interested in Sutherland DNA and genealogy, It is accepted by most historians and other researchers that Freskin was a Fleming, and he was first recorded in Scotland as quelling an insurrection in Moray in 1130 in the time of King David I.
Sir Iain Moncrieffe (now deceased) said in his book “The Highland Clans“, that Freskin’s father was Continue reading
Greetings to Sutherland DNA Project members! It all started 25 years ago, combing through records at New Register House in Edinburgh. Working my way back from my Grandparents each year (when I had the time between work commitments) carrying out the detective work Continue reading